Kann mir einer sagen, welche Form ich generell oder höflicherweise benutze, wenn ich nicht weiß ob die Dame verheiratet ist oder nicht. Lieben Dank! |
Das haben wir doch relativ kürzlich in epischer Breite diskutiert, aber ich finde es nicht mehr. Wer kann helfen? |
Ms. |
Ich bin kein Muttersprachler, aber ich halte es so: Eine Erwachsene rede ich grundsätzlich mit "Missis" an, außer sie will es anders. Im Schriftlichen benutze ich die Abkürzung "Ms.", was sowohl "Miss" als auch "Mrs." bedeutet. |
@ werner: meintest du dies? |
"miss" ist die besser alternative. man hat mich schon mal ausgelacht als ich blind "misses" gesagt habe - das ist nämlich eine unterstellung dass die frau verheiratet ist. "miss" ist auf jeden fall gut. |
"man hat mich schon mal ausgelacht als ich blind "misses" gesagt habe - das ist nämlich eine unterstellung dass die frau verheiratet ist" Dann ist aber die Anrede "Miss" eine Unterstellung, dass die Frau ledig ist. Im Deutschen spricht man erwachsene Frauen normalerweise auch als "Frau" und nicht als "Fräulein" an. |
@ °Andreas: Sprichst Du in Deutschland auch erwachsene, unverheiratete Frauen mit "Fräulein" an? Ich denke, auch im englischen Sprachraum gilt zumindest in der jüngeren Generation "Miss" als ziemlich verstaubt, es bestehen wohl fast nur noch wirklich alte "alte Jungfern" auf diese Bezeichnung. |
das ist doch genau der punkt warum ich den fehler gemacht habe. aber die analogie mit "fräulein" stimmt eben nicht. "miss" ist die übliche Anrede für alle Frauen die man nicht kennt. und zwar nicht nur für alte jungfern. und die unterstellung des ledigseins ist anscheinend in den usa vorzuziehen. jüngere frauen einfach so mit "misses" ansprechen geht nämlich gar nicht. zumindest eben auf AE. native speakers, anyone? |
maybe a bit late, but.... |
There was another discussion more recently, but I can't find it either. In a letter, it's always OK to use Ms, but if you know the woman is married and doesn't mind you using "mrs", then Mrs. If you know she is unmarried and doesn't mind "miss", use that. Mrs is always written like that BTW, there isn't a long form except "the missus" which only means "wife". |
Als ich 1980 ans College in die USA ging, war das eine meiner ersten Fragen. Man sagte mir, ich solle Frauen im Zweifelsfall mit "Mizz" anreden (stimmhaftes s wie in "Rose", im Gegensatz zu "Miss" mit stimmlosem s). Weiß aber nicht, ob das heute noch so gehandhabt wird. |
Folgende Erklärung: - wenn du weisst, dass die Dame verheiratet ist nimmst du "Mrs." - wenn du weisst, dass die Dame unverheiratet ist, musst du "Ms." nehmen, wird "miss" ausgesprochen und man kann auch "Miss" auschreiben - wenn du nicht weisst, ob verheiratet oder nicht ist es "Ms.", wird "Miß" ausgesprochen, also mit einem sehr scharfen deutlichen "s". In der Regel wird "Ms." auch nicht ausgeschrieben, wird nur abgekürzt geschrieben! Thema Punkt setzen oder nicht: Der Trend geht eindeutig von den Punkten weg. Hoffe das hilft weiter? Britta |
@Britta: Was ist denn dann der Unterschied zwischen Deinen beiden "Ms."? Geschrieben sehe ich ja nicht, wie man's spricht! Und ob die Aussprache "miss" oder "miß" ist, macht ja wohl überhaupt keinen Unterschied. Nein, nein. Die unverheiratete Dame heißt "Miss", das wird auch ausgeschrieben, und gesprochen wird es mit einem scharfen s. Wenn man den Ehestand nicht kennt,
ist es dagegen Ms, und das wird _nicht_ mit scharfem s gesprochen, sondern, wie hier bereits gesagt wurde, eher "mizz", aber mit einem ganz kurzen i. |
Stimme Janek zu. ich denke, daß wollte auch die Britta sagen. Mit Ms kann man nichts falsches machen |
>"Ms. wird 'Miß' ausgesprochen" --> No @Britta, not quite "Miss" is pronounced like German "miß" -- stimmlos //www.wordreference.com/definition/Ms..htm |
In any business situation Ms. is always correct. Miss and Mrs. are rather old fashioned in my opinion. I would only use Miss jokingly. Mrs. I do use use for older family aquaintances or business associates who carried the title Mrs. before Ms. came into use. Ms. is *not* just for unmarried women. It was brought into use as an equivalent to Mr.. The whole point of Ms. is to focus on the woman as a person and not on her marriage status. Please, use Ms. |
I would say Ms. is actually pronounced nearer to "muzz" rather than "mizz". In olden days [not so long ago, though] the rule was to address a woman as Miss unless you knew for certain otherwise. I presume that that has now been overtaken by Ms. unless otherwise known. Many women hate Ms. To them it sounds horrible and is allied to the use of "Partner" instead of "Spouse" so as not to embarrass the politcally correct who might be divorced and/or "living in sin" with someone else. There are people who would just prefer not to use titles, especially in business where marital status shouldn't even be an issue. The German use of Frau as a title for all adult women seems to be free of all this politcally correct baggage and works better than the English Ms. |
Actually I would agree with Paul on the pronunciation -- it is more of a Schwa than a short i -- so if I spell it phonetically: "M schwa Z". |
yes, Ms = Mzzzz. BTW "Misses" written that way is not the long form of "Mrs", it is the plural of "miss". Very old-fashioned; you'd read it in Jane Austen: "the Misses Steele" etc. |
I would avoid the use of Miss altogether, unless: 1. You are speaking to a very young girl and she is being naughty, eg: 2. You are speaking to a very old woman who has never been married, eg: 3. You are a child and speaking to a female
teacher, eg: In all other cases I can think of, use Ms if you don't know the marital status or Mrs if you know she is married. |
@Archfarchnad -gb-: "If you are an old, married, macho man or joking, refer to your wife as "the missus"" That's my girl! |
>Ms. is *not* just for unmarried women. It was brought into use as an >equivalent to Mr.. The whole point of Ms. is to focus on the woman as a person >and not on her marriage status. I fully support surfer. >Many women hate Ms. To them it sounds horrible and is allied to the use >of "Partner" instead of "Spouse" so as not to embarrass the politcally >correct who might be divorced and/or "living in sin" with someone else. ... and disagree with Paul: >There are people who would just prefer not to use titles, especially in >business where marital status shouldn't even be an issue. This I completely agree with, however I now tend to choose 'Ms' in preference to 'none' in the title category on many (UK) forms, as otherwise it is not uncommon that someone else ends up attributing you a title - usually either Miss or Mrs. .../... |
.../... >The German use of Frau as a title for all adult women seems to be free of all >this politcally correct baggage and works better than the English Ms. As noted elsewhere (this thread and previous one), it seems fairly likely that this use of Frau has indeed much to do with the invention of Ms by feminists. However, feminists are not the only ones using the language and I read that particularly in America, it is (was?) not uncommon to reserve the use of Ms to divorced women (as you can imagine, not quite the original idea of the feminists). The only way to make it a truly non-discriminatory title is to use is for as many women as possible - be they single, married or divorced (which boils down to single anyway) - so that it is as uninformative as possible. To make my point clearer, think about is this way (especially men): would you like being asked, on first encounter with someone (usually in a professional context): Are you married or unmarried? I guess you'd find it borderline rude - and yet that's exactly the piece of information that's requested from a woman when she's asked: "Is is Miss or Mrs?" |
We could, of course, address all females with "lady", "woman" or "female". That would solve the "problem" as simply as the German "Frau". |
> I read that particularly in America, it is (was?) not uncommon to reserve the use of Ms to divorced women This was never the case, and is not the case now. In the early days it was used mostly by those (of both sexes) in, or sympathetic to, the women's movement to refer to a woman of any marital status, precisely analogous to Mr. as estal pointed out. There was some early counterreaction by socially conservative women who pointedly wanted to be addressed 'Mrs.' or 'Miss' and not 'Ms.' as a way of distancing themselves from the movement. However this has largely subsided, except for ideologues, older women accustomed to a lifetime of using one or the other expression, and the proverbial 'small pockets of resistance'. You can pretty safely use 'Ms. X' to address any woman in writing or in person unless protocol calls for a title, such as 'Dr. X', 'President X', and so on. Common sense applies--if in doubt, just ask--no one will be upset at you for that. |
@hein mück @Peter <us> |
@ Estal "One impediment to our widespread acceptance of Ms. is the cloud of From //lists.village.virginia.edu/lists_archi... offering further insight into the history and use of Ms. |
Totally agree with Peter<US>. "Ms." is commonly used for all business correspondance (and used verbally), no matter what the individual's marital status is. Mrs. and Miss are only used anymore if the lady in question expresses a preference for one of those terms. |