Why did the Tang begin to oppress Buddhist monasteries in the mid ninth century?

I'm sure you are heartbroken you missed the opportunity to demonstrate your understanding of trade networks! Never fear, we're moving on to a new chapter! This one is regional in nature, and as we've talked about, all the SPICE themes are in this single chapter. Watch for the "I" to make an appearance. Happy studying, you'll like this chapter.

Bingham

6/10/2016 15:25:34

BPQ4: In what ways did Tang and Song dynasty China resemble the classical Han dynasty period, and in what ways had China changed?

Tang and Song dynasty China resembled the Han dynasty period in a number of ways, including the maintenance of the imperial political system, and the importance of a professional bureaucracy formally trained and subject to competitive exams.

Also similar was a focus on establishing a dominant political position in East Asia that was recognized by China’s neighbors; an interest in and support for long-distance trade; and the continued importance of the Confucian tradition in elite society.

China also experienced important changes following the Han dynasty period, including tighter unification of northern and southern China through a vast waterway system; the long-term migration of Chinese populations south into the Yangzi River valley after 220 C.E.; and an economic revolution that made it the richest empire on earth.

There was rapid population growth, from 50 million to 60 million people during the Tang dynasty to 120 million people by 1200, which was spurred in part by a remarkable growth in agricultural production.

Also, the economy of China became the most highly commercialized in the world and became more active in long-distance trade than during the Han dynasty.

Amy Vaughan

12/10/2016 18:44:27

Would you also consider the increased prominence of Buddhism a notable difference between the two?

Bingham

6/10/2016 15:26:26

There is a chapter 8 reading check on Monday.

Amy Vaughan

10/10/2016 19:20:34

MQ1: Change: Why are the centuries of the Tang and Song dynasties in China sometimes referred to as a "golden age?"

The Tang and Song dynasties saw the thriving of arts and literature, as well as the rise of Neo-Confucianism in combination with Buddhism and Daoism. These dynasties also fostered a long lasting state structure consisting of six ministries, a Censorate (surveillance system), and a renewed and less corrupt examination system. They experienced an "economic revolution" that left China the wealthiest country on earth as many highly urbanized cities sprung up. As agricultural production increased due to new technologies (including a hardy strain of rice from Vietnam), Tang/Son China experienced rapid population growth. A network of canals boosted trade and unified China, and industrial production likewise soared (esp. iron). These dynasties also witnessed much technological innovation (ex: printing, gunpowder, ship-building/navigational). Lastly, the Tang and Song dynasties witnessed China's transformation into a highly commercialized society as subsistence farming was traded for large-scale farming for market.

Amy Vaughan

10/10/2016 19:21:26

I know this is pretty lengthy- if anyone has a more concise breakdown, I'm sure that would be appreciated :)

Bingham

12/10/2016 08:00:58

Yeah, I would bullet point this to make it easier to memorize.

Eliza Pillsbury

12/10/2016 21:14:17

Try organizing this by the SPICE themes!

Matilda

10/10/2016 22:56:13

Here is my attempt at the last margin question!-

What were the major sources of opposition to Buddhism within China?
-some believed Buddhism would become a “state within a state” and a challenge to imperial authority
-there was resentment of its enormous wealth
-Buddhism was clearly of foreign origin and was offensive to some Confucian/Daoist thinkers
-To some, the celibacy of Buddhist monks and their withdrawal from society undermined the Confucian-based family tradition

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 22:31:56

Adding to your point about the resentment due to its foreign origin, years of foreign influence due to trade, cultural diffusion, and interactions with the steppes among others had generated a xenophobia which lead people to oppose Buddhism solely on the basis that it was part of foreign culture.

Matilda

11/10/2016 20:25:15

Here is my attempt at Margin Question 3 (not really sure if this is enough info so pls give feedback:-))
-The Nomads felt threat from Chinese (Chinese military deep into steppes, Great Wall of China) but also were dependent of Chinese goods and traded/raided to get Chinese resources(?).
-Chinese needed Nomads, their lands were a source of horses (essential to Chinese military) as well as skins, furs, hides and amber.

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 10:17:45

As far as China being dependent Nomads, I think an important part of that aspect of their relationship is the fact that the Nomads had control over significant parts of the Silk Roads. I would also add that China perceived the Nomads a a military threat.

When I was reading this part, the phrase "bitter but symbiotic" popped into my head to describe their relationship. It helped me visualize how they would interact with each other. There were mutual benefits from their relationship, but neither party was very happy about their dependency on each other.

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 21:56:04

I think it also helps to add that the nomads were pretty willing to put on this veritable dog-and-pony show to acquire China's wealth and wisdom, and to access their power (most likely because they were threatened by them).

I really liked the way Cassie put it with "bitter but symbiotic". It made me view the nomads and China as real people who are forced to be roommates, and they don't really like each other, but each of them has something the other one wants/needs.

Taylor Scott

12/10/2016 01:06:28

MQ3: What assumptions underlay the tribute system?

- China was the center of the world and represented civilization
- That Chinese were educated while non-Chinese, especially northern nomads, were seen as barbarians
- China's superiority to non-Chinese authorities, who were subordinate

Anything to add?

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 10:24:34

This may be trailing from the question a little, but I think another significant element of what underlay the tribute system was that its practices were intended to regulate relations between China and its neighboring states through the acknowledgement of these assumptions--non-Chinese authorities had to assert the superiority of China, Chinese authorities would upstage the non-Chinese in the exchanging of gifts, etc.

Taylor Scott

12/10/2016 10:54:49

I think that Chinese upstaging the gifts asserts that China was constantly proving that it was better, which is an assumption. Thanks for reminding me!

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 21:59:50

I would also add that the assumption that the Chinese were self-sufficient was important in the development of the theoretical tribute system because the way the system was run shows that China was just doing this "pro bono" and they didn't really need whatever tribute another people brought. This also ties into how the tribute system differed in practice from in theory.

Taylor Scott

12/10/2016 01:22:26

MQ2: In what ways did women's lives change during the Tang and Song dynasties

- elite Chinese women in the north had participated in social life with greater freedom during the Tang dynasty under the influence of the steppe nomads
- reviving Confucianism and rapid economic growth enforced patriarchal restrictions on women and notions of female passivity and submission by the time of the Song dynasty
- feminine qualities emphasized women's weakness, reticence (remaining silent), and delicacy
- women were viewed as a distraction to men's pursuit of a contemplative and introspective life
- remarriage of widows was condemned, although legally allowed
- foot binding that broke the bones on the foot and caused intense pain became associated with female beauty and eroticism
- urban workshops and state factories began weaving textiles, such as silk, that had previously been the jobs of women
- during Song China, women operated restaurants, sold fish and vegetables, and worked as maids, cooks, and dressmakers
- growing of prosperity of elite families generated an increase of women as concubines, entertainers, courtesans, and prostitutes
- in Song dynasty, women's property rights expanded (control over dowries and inheriting property from family
- low-ranking officials urged for the education of women to help raise sons and increase family fortune

Anything else to add? Is this list concise?

Eliza Pillsbury

12/10/2016 21:35:57

A connection that Strayer makes is that as more women were avaliable as prostitutes and concubines for married men, wives no longer had equal leverage when negotiating with their husbands. Does that make sense?

Taylor Scott

12/10/2016 22:12:39

Yes! I was actually on the fence about adding this under my third to last statement. Do you think this is another bullet entirely? Should we also add that women were set against each other as a result of those professions, creating household jealousies for attention?

Eliza Pillsbury

12/10/2016 23:22:55

I added it to my statement instead of making it a separate bullet point. And I'm not sure about adding the second one. I did not have it on my list, but maybe I should have?

Taylor Scott

12/10/2016 02:07:18

MQ7: In what ways did China have an influence in Korea, Vietnam, and Japan? In what ways was that influence resisted?

with Korea
- temporary Chinese conquest of northern Korea and colonization led to cultural influence in the form of Buddhism
- early Korean state refer to rulers with the Chinese term wang
- Korean states resisted Chinese political control unless it was advantageous to join with China against a local enemy
- Silla allied with Tang dynasty China to bring political unity to Korea
- Chinese efforts to set up puppet regimes and to assimilate Koreans provoked sharp military resistance, causing China to establish a tributary system with Korea
- Silla dynasty sought to become miniature version of Tang China
- Korean students were sent to China to study Confucianism as wellas natural sciences and the arts
- Chinese Buddhism took root in Korea
- negative impact on women (Confucian values disapproved of "free choice" marriages, women singing and dancing together late at night, the raising of children in her parent's home, remarriage of widows or divorced women, female inheritance of property, etc.); eroded by Confucian orthodoxy
- Chinese influence did not extend much past the aristocracy
- examination system was not a prominent as in was in China

with Vietnam
- elite of Vietnam adopted Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, administrative techniques, examination system, and artistic and literary styles
- Vietnam maintained political independence while participating in the tributary system
- the Red River valley, cultural heartland of Vietnam, was incorporated into the Chinese state for over a thousand years
- Vietnamese were ruled by Chinese officials who expected full assimilation
- Vietnamese elites were educated in Confucian-based schools
- Chinese replaced local language
- Chinese clothing and hairstyle became mandatory
- Vietnamese had periodic rebellions led by women on several occasions
- Vietnamese dynasties styled rulers as emperors, claimed the Mandate of Heaven, and made use of Chinese court rituals
- examination system in Vietnam functioned to undermine the established aristocracy
- Vietnamese retained distinctive language, fondness for cockfighting, and the habit of chewing betel nuts
- Vietnamese popular religion contained female nature deities and a "female Buddha"
- Vietnamese kept local customs instead of orthodox Confucian gender practices

with Japan
- Japan was never successfully invaded or conquered by Chinese
- Japan's borrowing was wholly voluntary
- the first unified Japanese state sought to transform Japan into a centralized bureaucratic state on the Chinese model
- Shotoku Taishi launched large-scale missions with Japanese monks, scholars, artists, and students to China to learn and return to Japan with those practices
- efforts to absorb Chinese culture diminished by the tenth century
- Japan's celebration of the samurai and of military virtues contrasted with China's emphasis on intellectual achievements and political office holding
- kami was assimilated into Japanese Buddhism
- Japan had unique writing system composed of Chinese characters and phonetic symbols; it was common for women of Japan to use tanka when writing

Is there anything that can be combined? Is there a better way to organize this question?

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 19:51:21

I took the liberty of tweaking Taylor's answer:

Korea
- Chinese terminology eg “wang” for rulers
- Resisted political control except in the case of allied warfare eg Silla united with Tang China to unify Korea
- Chinese attempts at Korean assimilation were rebuffed, and thus, China decided to “just be friends” and set up a tributary relationship with Korea
- negative impact on women (Confucian values disapproved of "free choice" marriages, women singing and dancing together late at night, the raising of children in her parent's home, remarriage of widows or divorced women, female inheritance of property, etc.); eroded by Confucian orthodoxy

Vietnam
- elite of Vietnam adopted Confucianism, Daoism, Buddhism, administrative techniques, examination system, and artistic and literary styles
- Vietnam maintained political independence while participating in the tributary system
- the Red River valley, cultural heartland of Vietnam, was incorporated into the Chinese state for over a thousand years
- Vietnamese were ruled by Chinese officials who expected full assimilation
-Chinese culture was mandatory—Confucianism, language, hairstyles, etc
- Vietnamese had periodic rebellions led by women on several occasions
- Dynasties adopted the style of “emperor”, claimed the Mandate of Heaven, and made use of Chinese court rituals
- examination system in Vietnam functioned to undermine the established aristocracy
- Vietnamese retained distinctive language, fondness for cockfighting, the habit of chewing betel nuts, and local customs with regard to gender
- Vietnamese popular religion contained female nature deities and a "female Buddha"

Japan
- Japan was never successfully invaded or conquered by Chinese
- Shotoku Taishi launched large-scale missions with Japanese monks, scholars, artists, and students to China to learn and return to Japan with those practices
- efforts to absorb Chinese culture diminished by the tenth century
- Japan's celebration of the samurai and of military virtues contrasted with China's emphasis on intellectual achievements and political office holding
-elite women escaped the grasp of Confucian oppression
Korea and Japan
-cultural/political borrowings were wholly voluntary
-sent boys to study in China (similar to Romans sending boys to Athens for a Greek education)
-remained separate political entities
-Silla dynasty Korea and centralized Japan sought to model themselves off of Tang China

Korea and Vietnam
-elites were the primarily recipients of Chinese culture
-developed into politically independent tributary partners
-Chinese culture continued to permeate for the majority of history

All Three
-used Chinese phonetic writing systems (Korea used hangul, Vietnam chu nom, Japan tanka)
-Buddhism became assimilated into the culture—Japan adopted Buddhism through integrating it with the kami and Shinto culture, Vietnam adopted it through coercion, and Korea through choice

This is for the good of the order, so does anyone want to take a stab at improving my answer/could someone please take a stab at improving my answer?

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 19:51:54

*Taylor's answer with my edits

Taylor Scott

12/10/2016 22:39:24

I don't think that Korea's cultural/political borrowings were wholly voluntary as there was conquest and colonization that brought Buddhism to Korea. Japan was wholly voluntary because it was geographically separated from China. What do you think?

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 23:07:34

You are absolutely right! I got a little confused due to fatigue. Thanks for correcting me!

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 10:45:57

MQ: How did the tribute system in practice differ from the ideal Chinese understanding of its operation?

Compromise was often necessary--If nomads or other states achieved enough dominance, they usually exercised power to deal with China on at least an equal basis-->China would often promise princesses as wives, give goods that strongly benefited the nomads, and even promise an annual supply of grain, wine, and silk to the nomads. These were often deemed "gifts" so as to remain in accordance with the tributary ideals, but more often than not, they functioned as protective bribes or tribute to another state as thanks.

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 10:57:47

MQ: What facilitated the rooting of Buddhism within China?

--The political fragmentation following the fall of the Han dynasty stigmatized Confucianism, creating room for alternative philosophies to take its place.
--Northern nomads, who took control after the collapse of the Han dynasty, found Buddhism's foreignness useful
--In the disjointed society, Buddhism's emphasis on morality, ritual, and contemplation served as a comforting response to the chaotic times-->elite would provide patronage that facilitated the building of Buddhist monasteries, temples, and works of art.
--It's providing of social services to a variety of people was appealing
--A growing association with miracles made Buddhism attractive in the time of upheaval
--The sinicization of Buddhism made it more digestible to Chinese residents
--The Sui and Tang dynasties offered state support of Buddhism

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 11:16:25

This is a question I pulled based on a statement Strayer makes at the beginning of the chapter:

Why did China cast such a long shadow in the third-wave era?

--It was a massive and powerful civilization:

*Unparalleled influence: It's structure was imitated by adjacent peoples

*Immense presence: It gave rise to a China-centered "world order" that encompassed most of Eastern Asia

*Regionally massive: It's borders extended deep into Central Asia

*Very populous: its wealthy and cosmopolitan culture attracted visitors from all over Eurasia

*None of its neighbors could escape its pull: All of them had to deal with China, whether directly or indirectly, at some point

*Its booming economy and technological innovations had ripple effects all over the Afro-Eurasian world

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 11:26:19

What effects did the collapse of the Han dynasty have on Chinese society?

--Three centuries of political fragmentation followed the collapse of the Han dynasty
--This collapse signaled the rise of influential and locally entrenched aristocratic families
--Saw rise of the incursion of nomadic people, many of whom assimilated into Chinese culture
--Discredited Confucianism-->opened the door for Buddhism and Daoism to take root
--Saw substantial Chinese migration south toward the Yangzi River Valley-->this, in addition to intensive agriculture, set in motion drastic environmental transformations in the form of de-forestation and the retreat of elephants that had inhabited those lands

Cassie Barham

12/10/2016 11:37:27

In what ways does Buddhism's incorporation into Chinese culture illustrate the process of cultural encounter and adaptation?

Even as Buddhism faded in India, its diffusion throughout other parts of Asia solidified its presence in the region-->
--It served as the only example of large-scale, Chinese cultural borrowing until the 20th century, which provided launching pad for its spread into Korea and Japan
--Provided an element of commonality for the vast region, particularly during the fragmented times following the Han dynasty's collapse, this would have helped to stimulate its spreading.

Niara Pelton

12/10/2016 16:42:40

Connection: In what ways did China and the nomads influence each other?
-Often nomads adopted Chinese ways, employed Chinese advisors, governed according to Chinese practice, and the elite, immersed themselves in Chinese culture and learning
-Northern steppes people didn’t assimilate to Chinese culture, but interacted through peaceful trade, political negotiations, and economic extortion
-Nomads influenced areas that they had temporarily conquered and ruled
-Founders of Sui and Tang dynasties were, at least partially, descended from nomads blended with Chinese
-Fought in the style of Turkish warriors

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 16:44:09

In what ways did women's lives change during the Tang and Song dynasties?

-women had fewer job opportunities available during the Song eg the textile industry effectively forced women out of the more lucrative positions->women flocking to growing big cities to become prostitues, concubines and entertainers
-greater social freedoms in general in Tang under the influence of the steppe peoples--women were required to stay home mind the opinion of men (such as the practice of foot binding) during the Song
-women more valued and revered in society in Song (Queen Mother of the West was a prominent Daoist deity)--women viewed as fragile, frail and a distraction to male success

This seems slightly deficient...thoughts?

Amy Vaughan

12/10/2016 19:26:19

Taylor also posted an answer to this question farther up the forum if you want to compare :)

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 20:01:02

Thanks Amy! From Taylor's answer, my edits would be:

-women's property rights expanded during the Song dynasty (such that women could control their own dowries)
-Song women's education was more encouraged so that they could better raise their sons
-revival of Confucianism-->fewer social freedoms in the Song dynasty=more gender stereotyping as frail and a mere distraction, foot binding was seen as a necessary rite of passage even though it was unhealthy, widows' remarriage was strongly frowned upon (although technically allowed)

Ava Kirchen

12/10/2016 21:01:32

MQ8
In what different ways did Japanese and Korean women experience the pressures of Confucian orthodoxy?

Japan
- less pressures for women from China because regions are physically separated
- Marriages easily made and broken
- married couples lived apart or with the wife's family
- women could inherit property
- artistic freedoms
- Chinese influence from Tang dynasty which allowed more freedoms for women
- women lost status more to warrior culture as opposed to Confucian pressures

Korea
- More pressure from China because regions border one another
- prohibition of remarriage for widows
- married couples living with the wife's family is seen as disrespectful to Confucianism
- married women belonged to husband's family
- practiced foot binding
- seclusion with in the home
- women lost status to Confucianism

Am I on the right track? What else should I add?

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 21:12:59

Those are all great points, but I think you might want to hone in on the whole "losing status to Confucianism" specifically. Because Chinese culture was so innately Confucian when Chinese culture reached these areas, most of it already works, you just need to tie it back a little bit more to the question.

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 22:14:44

Also, with all that you listed for Japanese women, more or less, all of those things were a result of the rejection of Confucian orthodoxy with regard to women. Many elite Japanese women were able to escape Confucian oppression, so do you think Bingham would want us to list all of the ways that Japanese women were NOT confined by Confucian orthodoxy here as well?

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 21:25:03

What facilitated the rooting of Buddhism within China?

-the prolific successes of the Silk Road trader-->more foreigners entering China-->Buddhism's permeation as a "religion of foreigners"
-the chaos of the collapse of the Han dynasty made Buddhism a desirable religion, as well as that nomads had a penchant for it because it was also foreign
-Buddhist monasteries provided social services for people
-Buddhism was culturally translated to speak more specifically to Chinese people (dharma->dao, morality->filial submission)
-Mostly Mahayana Buddhism spread, which is more guided than the original Theravada and leaves less spiritual seeking to the practitioner
-constant state support-->persistence into modern times

Anything I'm missing?

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 22:24:12

MQ9: In waht ways did China participate in the world of Eurasian commerce and exchange and with what outcomes?
-Song prosperity-->shift from subsistence to trade-based economy via the Silk Road and Indian Ocean trade
-papermaking and printing spread to the rest of Eurasia-->Islamic literary development, reinvention of the movable type by Gutenberg in Europe
-spread of Chiense gun powder prompted the military breakthrough of the invention of the cannon
-Indian Ocean trade-->Eurasian adoption of the Chinese magnetic compass

What am I missing? Let me know peeps!!!

Yasmeen Gaber

12/10/2016 22:24:42

*Chinese

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Bingham

Welcome class of 2019. Some years students collaborate in this space effectively, some years not so much. One thing I know, collaboration significantly enhances learning. If you want access to my thoughts, this is the collaboration space to use. Most people propose an answer to margin questions, big picture question, or anything else related to managing Strayer. Other people can then comment leading to a stronger answer. I'll keep an eye on these pages, and pop in when I think you need me.

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